The Rusher Who Wouldn’t Take the Knee

By | 2017-06-02T18:30:05+00:00 September 25, 2017|
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No law requires the playing of the National Anthem at the outset of professional sporting events. Also, no law requires people to stand when the anthem is played, or that people to sing along—although federal law does mandate that we “should face the flag and stand at attention . . . right hand over the heart,” and that “men not in uniform . . . should remove their headdress with their right hand” (36 U.S. Code § 301).

But there is nothing in the statute which says that one cannot use posture as a means for what ESPN called “demonstrating for social justice.” So it is not clear what daring thing the owners, coaches, and players of the National Football League thought they were doing Sunday when they collectively took a knee or raised clenched fists while the “The Star Spangled Banner” was played.

Except, of course, generating the comprehensive fury of the American public.

The full-throated choruses of roaring, angry boos, and shouts of “Stand up!” which wrapped themselves around the Detroit Lions, the Indianapolis Colts, Kansas City Chiefs, and other teams that took part in this neatly orchestrated protest melodrama have no precedent in professional football history. Boo dropped passes, yes. Boo botched field goals, yes. Boo Roger Goodell and Tom Brady, yes—oh, my, yes. But boo the players before the game even begins?

Not that the NFL’s players are really in the best position to pass social-justice judgment on President Trump’s exhortation to “one of these NFL owners” to fire any “son of a bitch” who “disrespects our flag.” Since 2000, there have been 855 player arrests, including 215 charges for driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; 99 drug busts; 96 domestic violence incidents; 71 felony assaults; and two murders.

Baltimore Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs, who took the knee during the anthem to affirm that “nonviolent protest is as American as it gets,” was charged last year with leaving the scene of an accident and driving with a suspended license in Arizona. Adrian Peterson of the New Orleans Saints, who sat on a bench for the anthem, pleaded no contest to a felony child abuse indictment in 2014. Marcus Johnson of the Philadelphia Eagles has been a prominent demonstrator for social justice, but he also has a DUI from 2009 and a disorderly conduct charge in 2004. Justice and social justice do not seem to be terribly well-connected here.

I do not understand the deference I am supposed to show to the opinions of people who batter other people senseless for a living. I don’t follow the NFL. I’m not even a football fan. When I was in high school, our football team was so bad, I was voted “Best Moves on the Football Field” for my senior year—because I was the drum major of the marching band.

I do, however, have a nominee for all-time down-field rushing. Just bear in mind that football had not yet been invented when he broke for the end zone.

His name was William Harvey Carney, and he was born a slave in Norfolk, Virginia, on a leap year day in February 1840. His father had escaped from slavery to Massachusetts, where he earned enough money to buy the freedom of his wife and child. When the Civil War broke out, young Carney enlisted in one of the first all-black Union Army regiments, the famous 54th Massachusetts, and rose quickly to the rank of sergeant. (Carney would become the model on which Morgan Freeman’s character, Sergeant Rollins, was based in the 1989 movie “Glory,” which tells the story of the 54th Massachusetts).

The 54th Massachusetts’ first great test of combat came when it was detailed to lead the assault on Battery Wagner, the Confederate fort that guarded the approaches to Charleston Harbor, in July 1863. Led by their youthful white colonel, Robert Gould Shaw, the 54th dashed heroically for the walls of the fort. Carney saw the regimental color-sergeant, bearing the regiment’s Stars-and-Stripes, stumble and fall. “As quick as a thought,” he scooped up the flag and rushed alongside Col. Shaw over the wall. Shaw was struck down, sword in hand. Carney was hit in the leg and the chest, and the 54th began a grudging retreat.

But rather than allow the flag to be captured, Carney “wrapped the precious colors around the staff” and “cautiously picked my way among the dead and dying.” He finally made it to safety, staggering on his last strength to a field hospital where he collapsed—but not before handing over the shot-ripped flag. “Boys, I did but my duty,” Carney gasped, and “the dear old flag never touched the ground.”

Carney was awarded the Medal of Honor, and in the years after the war, he worked as a mail carrier in New Bedford, Massachusetts, still limping from his wounds. Until seven months before Battery Wagner, Carney didn’t even have a flag to call his own, since the Supreme Court’s infamous Dred Scott decision in 1857 had decided that no black man could even be a citizen. But the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation in January 1863 changed that, and Carney got his flag and his medal—and a country.

William Carney’s injuries guaranteed that he would never have been able to play football. But I don’t think he would have had any trouble standing up for “The Star-Spangled Banner.” In his hands, that banner “never touched the ground.” Unless the millionaires of the NFL think they’re better or wiser than Sergeant Carney, they might begin to study his style.

About the Author:

Allen C. Guelzo
Allen C. Guelzo is the William L. Garwood Visiting Professor in the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions at Princeton University. His website is allenguelzo.com.
  • Karl_Spence

    Such a good article! “Glory” is one of the best Civil War movies, and it’s great to learn more about the 54th. We all could learn something from Sgt. Carney’s example.

    • Hominid

      I get annoyed when people praise war movies. It’s not about phony movies – it’s about the real deal – the real warriors who gave their lives for America. That’s why it’s so disgusting to see these privileged, ignorant jackasses “protest” the flag.

      • Name

        What doesnt annoy you?

      • Loek van Iwaarden

        ‘… Black people in protest, be they rich or poor, famous or obscure, have always made the powers that be uncomfortable.
        Because to be black and to be conscious and to have a voice flies in
        the face of white supremacy.
        As a result, while Nazis can be afforded
        the right to march freely and proudly through American cities, it is
        conceivably never OK for black people to speak out against what they
        perceive as injustice and oppression…’

        From:
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-double-standards-of-black-people-in-protest_us_59c90d74e4b01cc57ff3cc50

        • Cornhusker

          Nazis and KKK don’t burn and loot when they “march” here in the United States. That’s one big difference.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Indeed, they prefer running people over!

            The world is watching.
            You can’t fool all the people all the time.

          • Cornhusker

            More cops have been murdered at black protests and Congressional staff shot by Bernie supporters
            in the last year than the KKK and Nazis have done in the last 50 years…that is, if you are keeping score.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Nope. You are wrong.
            ‘.. There have been more than 11,600 deaths linked to gun violence so far in 2017…’
            From: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/2/1703434/-In-America-a-mass-murder-happens-nearly-every-day
            ‘… Trump is unafraid to be brash and act tough when the suspect or victims
            of a tragedy are not white. But when the suspect is white, as was the
            case in the Las Vegas shooting, Trump can only muster a boilerplate
            response — clearly disappointed(..)…’
            From: https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/trumps-reaction-to-las-vegas-was-a-lot-different-than-other-attacks/

          • Cornhusker

            Are you even from this country?

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            You noticed, ha!
            It’s not the point of the discussion above, but anyhow.
            My comments however, are made using US information.

            Many people from outside the US too, are observing the alarming slide into mass psychosis of a Republican party apparantly trapped in a suicide pact with this illegitimate so-called president.

            Further explanation can be gleaned from:
            https://www.alternet.org/chomsky-trumps-1-goal-president

          • Cornhusker

            Nobody here really cares what Europe or Europeans think of our country, outside of a few in the press or liberal elites. Europe has been a drain on the United States for the last 100 years, with your two World Wars, your inability to defend yourselves in the Cold War and now your surrender to a Muslim takeover. You don’t even procreate enough to replace yourselves. Why would we take advice from you? Please don’t take this as insulting, but really, why would we take advice from a continent that is on the decline for the last 100 years?

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            It’s just that I get my information from US sources!!
            You may not like these, but there we are.

            Consequently, your rant about Europe is neither here nor there.
            ================================
            ‘… (…) unpredictability of (…) agenda is something that unnerves many observers.
            “It’s a problem for the world,” (…) “because the world doesn’t know what the United States is going to do next.”..’

            From: http://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/354178-the-memo-tillerson-flap-puts-spotlight-on-trumps-foreign-policy-moves

          • Cornhusker

            U.S. Sources can be whatever you want them to be. CNN and the New York Times are going to be diametrically opposed to FOX News and The Drudge Report. As far as anything “being a problem for the world” “because the world doesn’t know what the United States is going to do next” that sound like a problem for the world, not the United States. My advice is that North Korea, Iran, Germany, and China do what is best for them, and we will do likewise. We no longer care to be the policeman, nanny, and sugar daddy for the rest of the world.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            America can’t be trusted on anything anymore, that’s the problem.
            Promises and signatures from this insane WH don’t count for anything anymore.

            Sooner or later you will need a bit of trust from abroad yourself and US’ mendacity will bite you in the #ss, let me tell you.

            What goes around, comes around; Karma is a b#tch, you know.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Except, one final time, the sources whereupon my opinions rest are ALL American!!

        • JJinCO

          As long as blacks are led by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the Congressional Black Caucus, and the NAACP it’s tough to take black “protest” seriously. Then there are the protests like Ferguson or NYC or Baltimore for fallen black “heroes” … or the peaceful protest in Dallas where 5 policemen were killed.

          NFL players are largely black. NFL owners are all white. NFL fans are mainly white. But it is a business requiring fans to keep voluntarily fork over their time and money to keep the league profitable. Protesting at the games is just plain foolish. It diminishes the entertainment value of the product that pays the bills.

          But they can protest on … if they wish to bite the hand that feeds them.

          Most whites don’t discriminate against blacks. They don’t have the time, the energy, nor the inclination. They are busy leading lives of their own. The villains are the poverty pimps that have to keep blacks uneducated, poor, miserable, and dependent on a government handout … and angry. These villains will definitely support a protest of any kind. It’s what helps them maintain their exalted position.

          As for me … the NFL is dead to me. Protest all you want, but not on my time or on my dime.

        • bloatedfed

          So much nonsense in such a succinct post (thanks for the brevity BTW)…but then again citing Huffpo as a source kinda weakens the argument (such as it is). You might look up exactly how many Nazis there are in the USA (it’s not even in the thousands at last check) and then compare that to the numbers Antifa and BLM seem to be able to get to “march” (aka loot and burn other people’s property)on almost any day of the week.

        • TooTall7

          Lol!!!

        • TooTall7

          Sorry to burst your social justice bubble but your nazi’s procured permission to march from established civil authority. They also marched in a venue designated by that same civil authority. Your NFL players do so in an ad hoc manner, without permission, in a venue specifically designated for a purpose other than protest. Furthermore those millionaire protesters could certainly afford a proper venue. As for the NFL it’s way too late for them to do anything about it’s continued demise. The damage is already done!

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            No, for one thing, the ratings are actually UP!!

            From:
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-nfl-ratings-way-down-not-tru_us_59ca65c3e4b06ddf45fb5cda?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

            The world is watching.
            You can’t fool all the people all the time.

          • TooTall7

            Up from where? AP reports that viewership of NFL games is off 11% over 2016 which itself was off 11% from 2015. So a number of liberals tune in to show support for the players against Trump and that’s news? GMAFB!!!

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Well, up from the time before the kneeling protest against a series of unpunished and cowardly shooting in the back by police of unarmed black teenagers, you know.

  • Michael Jones

    I have been an avid fan of my team for more than 50 years. But I have stopped watching them. I watched football for pleasure. There is no pleasure in watching multimillionaire celebrities abusing their celebrity to insult the flag and nation that friends of mine gave their lives to defend.

    I cannot stop the players or the NFL or NBA from insulting country and flag. But I can make sure I no longer spend money on tickets, fees to watch the games, team shirts and paraphernalia. I can make sure these America-haters no longer add a dime to their pockets that came from me.

    • BrendaPThrift

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    • Theonewhoknocks

      You can’t stop the players from protesting, but what you can do is learn more about the issue than simply claiming they hate America. This movement started because they love their country and don’t agree with the direction it is going in. If you still don’t agree after educating yourself that is also fine; just make sure you understand the actual reason rather than misinterpreting the premise and deciding they “hate America.”

      • JDL

        It is logical to conclude that when someone is protesting, doesn’t like the direction of the country, and starts a movement for change, that they do indeed hate circumstances as they are today. What is NOT logical is to disparage, insult, and disrespect the great number of Americans who do like the country, it’s direction, it’s heritage, and it’s traditions. Sports/entertainment will do whatever is profitable for owners, and ultimately, the customers will decide.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          Clearly some will see the protests and take a very black and white approach to it and determine that it is disrespectful, case closed. Those who wish to understand further will educate themselves on the issues.

          • Howard Lee Wilder

            You’re using that word in a wrong context again. You don’t have a case here, so you’re very thoughtfully retreated to the high ground. Again.. you need to look around. There’s plenty of this so-called ‘education’ going around, okay? We hear it droning on and on. If I wanted to hear it yet again, I would turn on whatever channel I know will have the same prospectus. That’s not enough, though for some people. You’re mystified why people would refuse another lesson in the curriculum, and you think that it’s wrong to be able to escape from your dogma. So, you have to reach out and save the children by making a bit Leftie production out of our National Anthem, not really caring that many people find it insulting. I just read your latest, too. No, I certainly have not had the benefit of a Liberal indoctrination (the real word you mean to use when you misuse ‘education’.) but I can vote. I’m a veteran. And I don’t think an entertainment venue that I pay money for should be hijacked by SJW’s who think I’m just not smart enough to understand what they’re trying to say and they need to try a little harder. Thanks for playing though.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Again, I agree that you haven’t spent much on an education. Otherwise more of that would have made sense. Sorry that a different point of view triggers you so much. Might want to get that looked at.

          • JDL

            You repeatedly recommend more “education” and yet I cannot see where you have posted any of your great revelations. Could it be that you are just FOS?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            I have had great revelations? Please, let me know what struck you the most

          • RCQ_92130

            Please. You 2 get a room.

          • Why not take a moment and educate us then? Should be easy to point to a clear, coherent, easily articulated, well-defined issue if such actually exist. The national anthem and the flag are symbols of the nation as a whole, not select aspects of it, so in choosing to protest them they are protesting America itself, not some flawed aspect of it.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            I never said the issue was clear; far from it. There are many layers to this. But since you mentioned the flag, be aware of Kaep’s original protest and the meaning behind taking a knee. He sought the advice of former military veterans for the main goal of not offending veterans. Their advice was to take a knee during the anthem as they found that to still be respectful.

          • JDL

            Your insinuation that I am uneducated is an insult. I understand many of the issues quite well from years in academics as well as the work force. Please educate us all on your alleged deeper understanding. We will wait.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            I never said you weren’t educated. The mere insinuation appears to deeply offend you, though. What I said is that people who wish to understand further should educate themselves. Therefore, if you don’t wish to understand, don’t learn. I figured someone with an education would be able to figure out the difference.

          • JDL

            Again, you erroneous and ignominious assumption that if only people would further educate themselves that their opinions would change. Might I suggest that you further study the elements of debate so that you can put forth your argument logically and then defend your position rather than suggesting others get educated.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Might I suggest that you stop talking down to people and hold a civil and adult conversation without the underhanded attempts at insults. It appears I did offend you as you got progressively more defensive. My apologies

          • JDL

            No apology necessary. Debate requires ideas, supported by beliefs, facts, and opinions. I challenge only your opinion that further education is a critical factor in forming an opinion about oppression of blacks by police. Many have reviewed the statistics on violent crime and the police response to it. While a single mishandled incident is one too many, the overwhelming incidents are handled correctly, and police do risk their lives doing their job. Finally, the gulf between “the police acted stupidly,” and the feeling that criminals deserve swift and aggressive punishment is likely to persist no matter how much the facts are pondered.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Well I never was informed I was in a debate. Regardless, I merely meant education on the protesting as whole, not specifically police violence. There is much more to it than that. I think too many people see it black and white and conclude that they are disrespecting the flag.

          • JDL

            The NFL and its charities have plenty of media outlets for issues. Hijacking the highest profile (and free) TV time with a captive audience during the national anthem has met with understandable objection, don’t you think? In addition to the expressed protest against white police violence against blacks, how has the issue expanded in your mind?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Oh I fully understand why people are offended, I get that. They see it as disrespectful to the flag, the country, and our troops. I do believe that thanks to this issue being blown up over the weekend the issue is being talked about and hopefully within a civil and productive atmosphere. Viewership was up some 3%, and even more so on Monday night. So hopefully we can all discuss the issue civilly and come to some common ground and at least understand each other.

      • Brutus

        If they love it so much, why purposely disrespect it. The reason is they KNEW it would piss people off. According to their leader Kap, they do NOT like this country. No matter how you spin it, when they protested thet KNEW many Americans would be truly offended. When looking at their BLM reasons, it makes it even more insulting.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          For change. To make a statement. To make people talk about it. If you are passionate about an issue, you do something about it. They have never made any statements about their love of America. That is a determination that others are making about them. Understand their reasons and disagree with them if you like. I think it puts the narrative into the wrong line of thinking to claim they are unAmerican or hate America.

          • NbyNW

            It’s the protesters’ responsibility to make it clear they don’t hate America. They’re aware of the backlash from those who are offended.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            There were several interviews prior to the games Sunday, one by Pete Carrol, who made quite clear what their reasons were. No one said they hated America, nor should they have to make that clear. Do we make the same request of the white supremacists when they protest, sometimes violently? We know they hate people of color, but don’t even start to question their love of America. In this sense we have a clear existence of hatred yet the thought of them hating America isn’t even entertained.

          • NbyNW

            For Pete’s sake. Actual white supremacists are a very small fringe group, and no one admires them. And any protest that need long explanations after the fact isn’t working.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Yet you didn’t refute my assertion

          • NbyNW

            Your assertion is a rabbit trail. Stay on topic. When a person protests during the national anthem, surprisingly, people are going to question that person’s love for that nation. Not complicated.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            You can choose not to answer my question if you like. Beyond that, your attempts to simplify the issue are without a proper foundation.

          • NbyNW

            You don’t get to choose the parameters. And you’re not really trying to have a conversation.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            I would give you the same advice. Have a nice day

          • Carolinatarheel

            It’s too bad they’ve forgotten the words of MLK!

            Race has nothing to do with this issue!

            Character is important!

          • matt wilkinson

            We also have a clear existence of hatred in the B.L.M. movements as well, and ANTIFA-groups who have shown much willingness to enact violence.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            ANTIFA has nothing to do with this. BLM has had protests that have become violent, but I wouldn’t define them as a violent movement.

          • matt wilkinson

            of course you wouldn’t.

          • Howard Lee Wilder

            Pick another venue then, don’t make people pay to be lectured when they came to get a beer, a brat and watch a F**king football game. You really don’t get it, do you? Is that obliviousness a result of your Liberal Arts indoctrination?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            There it is again, the “isn’t there a better way to do it?” Do you make the same statement when the white supremacists hold protests? You know, when they carry torches, chant that “jews won’t take my job”, and are violent? Pretty hard to watch black people peacefully protest for five minutes. How offensive!

          • Howard Lee Wilder

            Again, you’re equating a PROTEST event (which is free by the way) with a Football game, where people have to PAY beau coup buck$ to attend! You’re actually arguing for that and I find that troubling. Surely somebody like you is not representative of our educational system! If so, we’ve got a lot more problems than potential nuclear war with NKorea. People want to be entertained, in part to get away from this silly BS that the Lefties feel is their moral duty to disseminate; kind of like the Hare Krishna cult I had to put up with in the airports back in the ’70s. Wow. Because of Charlottsville (where both Left and Right extremists rioted, as everyone knows, if you don’t I’m glad I was able to (what’s the word you guys use now) to woke you (is that the proper conjugation? ) we’re supposed to fork over our hard earned money to a bunch of overpaid entertainers to piss and moan and appear to many to show disrespect to our country’s institutions so that we can be ‘educated’? Dude, I’m from Mars and you must be from Uranus, because we certainly think completely different. Tonight, Chargers versus The Rams, a short indoctrination session will start a half hour before game time, so make sure you get there early and get your seats.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Before you complain about our education system, become a part of it. Thanks for playing

          • Howard Lee Wilder

            Ha! I am! After all, I’ve taken you to school, in the very real sense. I mean look at you, you can’t even spell ‘indoctrination system’. I hope that your high-falutin’ Liberal morality will garner you a bigger tip at your barista gig at the next poetry reading… Oh, will they have people kneeling for that, too?…. LOL! Anytime you need some more instruction, please by all means don’t be shy to ask for it, Okay? I’ve got five people over to play poker and we’ve been getting a big kick out of you, son… Thanks so much! It makes the sting of losing $125.00 a little easier to bear. Cheers!

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Really? And what degrees might you have there professor?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Wait a second. You claim to be highly educated yet are sitting at home, mid-day, playing poker with five of your other highly educated friends, and you are doing this while talking online at the same time? I’ve played my share of poker games, and I don’t seem to recall too many of them being played on a Tuesday afternoon while one of the other players talked online. Doesn’t seem to add up there slick

          • Howard Lee Wilder

            The A.I. department at Google Labs has done an outstanding job with the ‘theonewhoknocks’ (TOWK) bot, and rightly deserves all the accolades the community has bestowed on the project.
            My recent experience testing TOWK proves beyond a doubt that Google Labs is on the right track.
            I sincerely hope that any of my feedback and suggestions will be instrumental in further refining this online entity towards the ultimate goal of an Artificially Cognizant Entity (ACE), with thought processes indistinguishable from that of humankind.
            During these sets of interactive tests, I have worked from a formal set of conventions and methodologies first developed in 1992 by our late Dr. Minksy and designed to trip up advanced A.I.
            You will be pleased to know that your TOWK is, without doubt, one of the most sophisticated A.I. agents my colleagues and I have had the honor of testing.
            However, at the end of the day and in its current configuration, TOWK represents not much more than the high end of Help Desk applications.
            The nagging problem continues to be, quite simply, the lack of emotionality, especially in not possessing a ‘sense’ (for lack of a better word) of humor.
            After a few exchanges with TOWK, this dearth of emotion became apparent when TOWK failed to understand the concepts of ‘Context’, ‘Sarcasm’, ‘Exaggeration’, and the big bugbear: ‘Irony.’
            As the testing continued, the failure to comprehend these basic tenets of humor caused TOWK to become increasingly irrational and inarticulate, responding with nonsensical, standard canned replies when its cognitive abilities reached their limits.
            Probably the best example of TOWK’s lack of true understanding was when I told it that I ‘Had taken it to school,’ meaning of course in modern American parlance (or slang, if you will) that I had bested it with my reply to one of its increasingly bizarre online posts. TOWK had no idea of what I meant, answering my jibe by asking me ‘what degree do you hold/have (can’t remember, I’ll forward the data) Professor?’
            This is an excellent example of how far Google Labs has come with TOWK and you deserve high commendation.
            Parsing out the aforementioned exchange, we see that while TOWK had apparently no idea what I was talking about, (instead, taking my statement literally, i.e. I was an Educator) it nonetheless was able to cobble together, in relatively short time, a response that undeniably deploys a rudimentary form of ‘Sarcasm’.
            I almost answered TOWK thusly: ‘Okay, I’m the Professor, so you must be Mary Ann,’ but I thought the cultural reference might be to obscure for it and it most likely would have either thrown out a tie to the French Revolution or Boston’s More Than a Feeling, and it seemed confused enough as it was.
            In conclusion, once again let me congratulate your team on your excellent effort. I think TOWK has a lot of potential and is a useful platform on which to develop more complex and ‘intelligent’ online bots, until the day of the ACE arrives.
            My recommendation is to build on your success with the bot’s burgeoning ability to employ ‘Sarcasm’. While it may lack the ability to discern ‘Sarcasm’, don’t be discouraged. It’s two steps up, one back in this business.
            Finally, although Dr. Minsky was not a fan of the Loebner Prize, I think your team has a real shot at winning it in 2018.
            Maybe you could name your next, better bot TWERK.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Funny how you spent all that wasted time on a humorless response instead of addressing literally anything I called you out on. It was a nice attempt at deflection, but it didn’t work. Care to try again? Or maybe you are too busy playing poker in the middle of the day with your highly educated and successful friends while they watch you try to sound smart on the internet.

      • Richard Poore

        It is difficult to learn more about this issue because this movement is extremely murky

        http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2735093-have-we-lost-sight-of-what-colin-kaepernick-was-really-protesting-for

        Kaepernick always said that he was protesting because of the killing of black people by police. (altho some of hi statements have added other things) A couple of the current players do seem to still be citing that as their reason, but many other reasons have now been claimed.

        Its never been a clear cut protest and now its morphed into a protest that many fans are seeing as aimed at the fans themselves.

        Its always dangerous for rich privileged entertainers to anger their fanbase.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          Good point. I just don’t see it having much repercussions, at least not to the players. Before this weekend it was individual players making a statement. Kaep lost his job because he was deemed expendable. Michael Bennett is way to important to be fired, so he is safe. When entire teams do it, that argument goes out the window.

          • JustData

            It’s had repercussions for Krappernik.
            It’s had repercussions for Von Miller.
            If ad revenues drop enough, it’ll have repercussions for players more broadly.

        • Carolinatarheel

          The NFL allows players to kneel against our flag; however, they wouldn’t allow players to wear decals on their helmets to honor those police officers who were murdered in cold blood in Dallas!

          Hypocrites!

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        • ojay

          Like typical liberals they just follow in suit and have no idea what they are doing. I would consider wearing a shirt with Fidel Castro’ s image disturbing. Did his momma teach him this ?? Kapperniski ?

      • NbyNW

        Assuming that people are uneducated on the protesters’ issues is arrogant, actually.

        I think the protesters are going about it the wrong way. Many people are deeply offended by their actions, and you’re not going to persuade people by offending them. These players are loved by their fans and could use their voices to make a point in a much more positive way. In addition, things are hardly going in the wrong direction. The things they’re complaining about have continued to get better over the years. It would be nice to have a little acknowledgement now and then for how far we’ve come. We will never reach perfection. If that’s what they want, they’ll be kneeling during the anthem forever.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          Of all the responses I have seen to the protesters, the one I can’t fully understand is when they are upset that they aren’t protesting in a different manner. “Why don’t they do it this way, or this way?” Somehow just the act itself upsets people, as if the Nazi’s in Charlottesville have more of a right to protest. For such a brief, silent, and peaceful form or protest, it sure is getting a lot of attention. And isn’t that one of the goals of protesting?

          • NbyNW

            Not if it’s counterproductive, obviously. It’s like people who block traffic to protest something that has nothing to do with commuters. They just get people to hate them who might otherwise be sympathetic. I know, I’ve been through it.

          • Jon

            They’re highly paid entertainers, who have deliberately chosen to alienate a significant percentage of their customer base by openly disrespecting both them and our flag, and by dragging politics onto the playing field. While rubbing their customers noses in it.

            Chops for making a stand on principle. As a business decision…not so smart. They need their customers, their customers don’t need them. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

          • Howard Lee Wilder

            Hear hear… Perspective is everything and the perspective is that yes, indeed these people are showing disrespect, only they’re doing it slyly, saying this isn’t about what it’s about with a wink and a nudge. They showed what they’re about when they disrespected our National Anthem in London, yet sprang back to their feet when God Saved The Queen was playing. WTF do you call that?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Being highly paid doesn’t mean they lose their constitutional rights. And suggesting that they alienated a significant percentage of their base is a reach. We shall see when the ratings are released. I’m willing to bet that ratings went up over this whole thing.

            And just for some perspective, when Kaep started his protest, he sought the advice of military veterans on how to properly protest and respect the flag. They suggested that he simply take a knee out of respect, which he did. Your argument that taking a knee is somehow disrespectful is without merit

          • Jon

            Sorry, but they don’t have a Constitutional right to engage in political speech on their employers time. That is not protected speech. Engaging in politics on the playing field is expressly forbidden by the NFL rules. What they’re doing is being sanctioned and permitted by the NFL. If that’s what the NFL wants, then it’s between the league and the players. What isn’t, is how their customers react.

            It’s amusing that you try to wrap this up as a Constitutional issue. You seem to believe, that they have a Constitutional right to express their political views, yet we have no rights to express our own viewpoint. They have their rights, and are exercising them. Again, I applaud that. I, and every other American also have rights. In this case, the right to withhold our financial support.

            Saying that they’ve “alienated a significant percentage of their base” is hardly a reach, only question is whether, or how many, of that significant percentage vote with their feet and their wallets.

            I’m pretty unimpressed with you and “Kaep” deciding what I and millions of other Americans should, and do, find disrespectful. Fancy yourself much? They’re making a personal statement. So am I. Pretty sure, so will millions of other Americans.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            You seem to get offended quite easily. I’ll refrain from responding further. Have a nice day.

          • Jon

            Hillarious. Sorry, but the only real issue here, is whether or not I and millions of other Americans should financially support professional entertainers who are deliberately going out of their way to offend us. I choose not to.

            Isn’t America wonderful?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Yes it is. See you in the playoffs

          • Howard Lee Wilder

            Are you seriously equating a Major League Football game, with parking, tail-gating, vendors and overpriced tickets to a riot by Right extremists and their counterparts on the Left? I don’t think anybody in Charlottesville had to pay out the nose to get seats. There is no equivalence! These players are just that, entertainers, and most can’t even juggle. When they get out there, the fans are their employers. Most people who go to a football game don’t wake up and say: “Get up everybody, we have to get down to the stadium, pay for good parking and hurry up for the National Anthem so we can get Educated.” They came to watch football. If there are some people out there who feel they need to get down to the stadium to receive the latest lesson in White Privilege, then so be it. As Mike Rowe put it (paraphrase) The question isn’t about what Trump thinks or what the NFL thinks, the question is how much and what form the paying public will tolerate (in exchange for their hard-earned gitas). If enough people don’t care, then what’s the problem? If enough people say enough is enough, you have to accept that outcome, too. Since this doesn’t concern me or my family, I don’t care about any of it. However, I do take exception when somebody says we all to get ‘educated’ and equates a stupid overpaid kids game to a riot where somebody got killed.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            When you think there is a “Major League Football” league and that the viewers are the owners, there really is no hope in educating you on something that is much more complicated. Good luck to you

          • RCQ_92130

            Your comments are simply deliberate and desperate attempts at obfuscation. nothing more.

            No one is saying the DisrespectfulOnes should “do it in some other way”, but, rather, to display their misguided beliefs at a time and venue that is not intentionally disrespectful to the nation. Go demonstrate in front of the stadium before the game. Go march at the civic center. And stand up like an actual human being when our national anthem is played or flag displayed.

            I can see that you are not amenable to an adult conversation; only little girl snits at those who do not buy your shit. Given “there is no hope for you”, i wish you as disaster free a day as is possible.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            “No one is saying the DisrespectfulOnes should “do it in some other way”, but, rather, to display their misguided beliefs at a time and venue that is not intentionally disrespectful to the nation.”

            That is exactly what doing it some other way is. Way to talk in circles.

          • RCQ_92130

            One can urinate in a toilet (like an actual human), or urinate on someone else’s face. Both are the same act, not done in different ways but on different venues.

            Thought the urinate analogy might get through.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            I guess reading your own backwards logic won’t teach you, nothing I say will do the trick then.

          • RCQ_92130

            Now THAT is something we all can agree on.

            NOTHING you are capable of saying will sway ANYONE.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Well you can only teach those who want to learn. Some, on the other hand, are lost causes. Somehow you fall under both categories

          • RCQ_92130

            YOU can’t teach anyone at all. To teach one must first learn & know.

            NOT your specialty, Bucky.
            not your specialty.

        • matt wilkinson

          Don’t forget, that many who are genuinely protesting are saying that I, as a white man, am racist because of my skin color, and my opinions don’t matter. They tell me to shut up and sit down and take it on the chin. If anyone is uneducated, it’s them.

      • ChuckNoland

        I have educated myself to their calls that America is a white supremacist nation and all white people are racist.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          Then you haven’t educated yourself. Try again

          • ChuckNoland

            So you don’t have a reply to my points? Wonderful example of a thoughtless reply.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Show me a point you made first

          • ChuckNoland

            Ahwww, you’re functionally illiterate.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            If you can’t provide one just say it rather than deflecting

          • ChuckNoland

            And yet you can’t seem to munster the attention to read my first post as I assume all this reading is wearing your lips out.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Just like the spelling must be wearing your pointer fingers out (*munster)

      • SurfingUSA

        So many false premises:

        1) Yes you can require players to protest on their own time, or fire them.

        2) I study the issues very carefully, and have concluded that BLM is based on the lie of “hands up, don’t shoot” and part of a broad Marxist scheme that yes, hates America.

        3) Movement started because of Marxist lies, see #2 above, not because they love their country.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          1) Firing them won’t stop them from protesting, it is a constitutional right;
          2) This has nothing to do with BLM and I haven’t heard that any players are associated with that movement;
          3) Leave your political bias at the door if you want to actually understand the issue. Otherwise you sound very conservative and closed minded

          • JustData

            1. They’re welcome to protest anywhere off the field. No one cares because meat puppets off the field are nobodies.
            2. It’s all about BLM and hating America
            3. Blacks are shot less often by police than whites and when you lie at the base of the argument you sound progressive and retarded.

          • SurfingUSA

            1) Can you enlighten us what part of the First Amendment permits protesting at one’s workplace?

            2) “This has nothing to do with BLM” — if so, why did the St. Louis Rams players run onto the field last year with hands up, part of the BLM “hands up, don’t shoot” narrative.

            3) I am bereft of political bias, all I have is my prodigious appetite for the facts of any situation.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            1) You said they should protest on their own time. I pointed out that firing them will not restrict this constitutional right. Understand what is being stated before speaking, you will get farther;
            2) One team does not speak for the entire protest, and I am sure that many players protest for different reasons. Don’t generalize;
            3) Then learn the facts, your argument might improve.

          • RCQ_92130

            Holy coyote. You said this DayOfDisrespect has nothing to do with BLM.
            Why, then, the clenched fists. I recall very clearly where this began and what it connotes. An insistence that it’s not in any way associated with BLM is just foolishness.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Well if you say it then it must be true. Especially since you provided zero evidence to substantiate it.

          • RCQ_92130

            I guess I agree with you on this.

            Only YOU can bloviate and spew silliness, not fact, totally lacking in substance support. If others do so it’s obviously false.

            My bad.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            I accept your apology.

          • RCQ_92130

            Of course you do.

            It’s a simple matter of education (or lack thereof).

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Totally agree. How is that GED course coming for ya?

          • RCQ_92130

            Care to compare degrees, you flaming buffoon?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Sure, what you got?

          • NbyNW

            “Very conservative and closed minded”

            What an open minded statement.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Why thank you. Did you give up on numbers?

          • NbyNW

            Numbers are my life.

      • Hubert Fitts

        You can’t stop the fans from protesting, but what the players can do is learn more about the issue than simply claiming that these fans love America.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          Just for some perspective, when Kaep started his protest, he sought the advice of military veterans on how to properly protest and respect the flag. They suggested that he simply take a knee out of respect, which he did. Your argument that taking a knee is somehow disrespectful is without merit

          • Hubert Fitts

            Theonewhoknocks: Being respectful is standing with one’s hand over one’s heart by long custom. Your argument that some military veterans can declare a new custom is without merit. Are you stating that now it is respectful to knee and to stand is being respectful? It would settle the issue by doing both at the same time perhaps.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            No, I didn’t change the rules of respect. My point is that Kaep, prior to making his statement, went out of his way to find a method of doing it that didn’t offend. You may not agree with the military veterans who made that determination, but it was made, and so was the effort.

          • Hubert Fitts

            Theonewhoknocks: I think that you are painting yourself into a corner by trying to rationally defend an act of disunity that did offend. When all of us take a Colin knee to show our new unifying gesture of respect during the national anthem then I predict that Mr. Kaep. as a QB. will be the only one standing with his hand over his heart. I am sure that you will again be rationally trying to defend his gesture as being respectful.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            And you can choose to ignore the simple explanation I provided that explains how Kaep came to his decision to kneel. Ignore the facts all you want, they still exist.

      • Howard Lee Wilder

        ….Then why did they stand for God Save The Queen in London? They can protest all they want about how they love this country, but everything is perspective and to a lot of people, they look like they’re disrespecting our country and its institutions…. I don’t think I should have to spend a small fortune to get ‘educated’. It’s entertainment, plain and simple. If they want to send a message, use the Post Office. ‘Educated’ that’s funny! Why, because you’re not getting through by harassing people in school and on subways and on commercials and day time television? If you want to ‘educate’ people, maybe you should give them free admission, a fee hot dog and a free beer. people are paying to see a stupid freaking game and be entertained, not get the generic White Guilt yada, yada, yada we’ve been hearing for so long.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          I agree. You clearly didn’t spend anything on getting an education.

      • Could you please link to a single statement as to what they are protesting? Writing in the Federalist, Mark Hemingway argues that they would help themselves if they had a coherent message, but it is not discernible:

        Can someone tell me what NFL players are trying to achieve here? Some sort of generalized awareness of ongoing racism? What are ordinary Americans supposed to do in response to this display? Are they offering a goal we can all agree on or debate the merits of? No one has any idea. So this protest, in the absence of a clearly defined point, looks like millionaire athletes throwing a tantrum, no matter how incredibly important the issue animating them is.

        Kaepernick, who started it, claimed it was about racists cops, but, as Hemingway continues: “Inevitably, the fact the NFL protests were started by Kaepernick means having to defend Kaepernick’s vision of America [emphasis added], which so far, amounts to taking a second look at communism and denigrating cops.”

        • Theonewhoknocks

          When Kaep started it, it was about inequality. Michael Bennett has stated the same when he started sitting during the anthem this year. I fully believe that the response across the league last weekend was in response to Trump rather than the overall movement. Regardless, Trump’s comments helped to unite the league on the issue. You are correct in that they may want to make the overall message clear, however, no two people or two teams may be protesting for the same reason. And there is nothing wrong with that. People can protest for whatever basis they feel passionate about.

      • matt wilkinson

        No, what they’re protesting, is the false narrative of “Hands up, don’t shoot” which is a blatant insult to the memory of fallen police officers AND those who have been wrongly killed BY police officers. I too, am sick and tired of watching these jerks protest and have not watched a game in three weeks now (two weeks before Trump started in on it).

        • Theonewhoknocks

          They feel there is an inequality in America and are protesting to raise awareness. You might not care, but you certainly noticed.

          • matt wilkinson

            Yes, well, what does that mean? What’s the end result, awareness? How do you intend to bring about real change when the dialogue is one sided and half of us aren’t allowed to have an opinion? In my opinion, all you’re advocating for is special treatment and leverage-the very thing you say you’re protesting against.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            When did I say I was advocating for anything? And when did protesting have to be so defined for people? I don’t have an end game here, and I won’t guess as to what the actual protesters is either. If you truly are curious, which based upon your anger I doubt you are, I’m sure you could find some additional information on the issue.

          • matt wilkinson

            If protesting isn’t defined, then are they just acting like 2 y/olds not getting their way? This all started with the Michael Brown case and the false “hands up, don’t shoot’ narrative. That’s where BLM have their beginnings-all based on a lie. You certainly do have an endgame, and it seems to be justifying the NFL players for being disrespectful to our nation’s National Anthem and blatantly picking an avenue is which to offend the most people; and as others have pointed out, offending a large portion of the audience isn’t exactly the brightest method of getting them to listen (nor is burning down their businesses and neighborhoods). As far as my curiosity is concerned, I am curious about what the major complaints are and I’ve actually listened to a couple folks at my work discuss it, but I’m no longer curious when people tell me my whiteness prohibits me from being part of the conversation-it instead turns to indifference and anger.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Your investigation into the matter was to talk with people at work? Do you work for the NFL? Otherwise that rationale made no sense. I have no endgame in the protests; however, if you want to define an online conversation as needing an endgame that is up to you.

          • matt wilkinson

            I wasn’t talking about millionaires patronizing a movement. I’m talking about discussing with people at work the broader issue of inequalities that they see. And BTW, I appreciate their inclusion of me in that conversation and not discounting my opinions and it’s helped breed a better environment. My endgame in the NFL protests is that they stop. I want to watch football. Not some sycophant kneeling down during the National Anthem, and I would be presumptuous to say that’s what most of us participating in the “online conversations” want as well. BTW, stating you have no endgame, just means you like to blather on and on. I’d like to see an endgame to conversations; otherwise, what’s the point of having them?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Well part of the problem is you already have determined he is a sycophant. How exactly is he a sycophant, and who do you claim he is acting in this manner for? And if this peaceful protest really takes away from your enjoyment of watching football, you might be too easily offended. prior to this weekend they didn’t even show the anthem. Regardless, it is five minutes of your time that is forgotten after kickoff.

          • matt wilkinson

            “He” is “they”, and most are sycophants because the majority are doing it to just get back at Trump for his comments (and I’m not a Trump supporter). There are players coming out and saying they wished they weren’t sucked into the controversy and just want to play football. Are they too easily offended? Do you accept that our society has politicized nearly aspect of our lives? And you’re right in that they didn’t start showing the Anthem, but it was the media that helped turn this into a $%^& show, it was the media that wouldn’t let it go, and it was the media that still is working to divide all of us. If it’s not that big of a deal, than why did you engage in the conversation? You know as well as I do, that the media loves stirring this up, and here we are talking about it.

          • Theonewhoknocks

            I think we are talking in circles and it isn’t productive. You want to know my end game? That as a society we can talk about issues that are divisive and if we can’t agree then we can at least attempt to understand each other without name calling, politicizing, or violence.

          • matt wilkinson

            I believe on that we can agree; but we’re humans, and I have zero faith that humanity will do that.

      • Yoda0060

        As much as these high priced prima donnas have a right to voice their given opinions, about the direction of this country, I too have that same right, in expressing my own opinions about those same players choosing the venue that they have, to disrespect the flag and the playing of the national anthem. On one hand, they can take a knee, while in response I can boycott the game that they’re about to play in, or refuse in any way, to contribute to the team, league or sponsors, who in some way, contributes to the salary or those players, whose actions I don’t approve of. Isn’t the First Amendment great, in how it works both ways.

        I think that I’m going to enjoy watching the once all-mighty NFL, taken to it’s knees – and some of it’s rich franchise owners headed to bankruptcy court. I guess those owners were never taught, that the first rule of any successful business, is that the customer ALWAYS comes first. Whereas, in this case, the fan base is clearly the “customer”. Any business owner who fails to abide by that concept, deserves to lose whatever they have invested.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          You are right about the first amendment, but going a bit far to declare the end of the NFL. This will be forgotten come playoff time and any fans that left will be watching once again. Additionally, when Kaep started to kneel he did it in a manner that was approved by military vets in order to respect the flag.

      • John M Blust

        Tell me what business allows its employees to make political statements which rile the customers while at work?

        • Theonewhoknocks

          Sure, the NFL. And a majority of the “Customers” don’t care.

      • ojay

        Bull. I bet you just love the Hollywood snowflakes. No sense of right or wrong just total Bull with a camera and microphone. They are being paid to play sports. Do the protesting on your own time. And if these black players want to protest something lets start with the black on black killings in Chicago every day including innocent children. F these WPOS !!!

        • Theonewhoknocks

          Another “protest how I see fit” response. You truly don’t understand the issues.

      • They’re sending a message when they kneel for the anthem. You don’t get to wish your intentions into a message and have it be received on the other side; the only things communicated in a message are what’s actually in the message, and what’s in this message is nothing but gross disrespect for our country.

        • Theonewhoknocks

          You can choose to ignore the reasons that have been clearly stated and make your own conclusions about respect. That doesn’t change the basis of the protest. How you interpret the message doesn’t change how the message was conceived; or more simply, your misunderstandings of the issue don’t change the narrative.

    • Tarquin42

      imbecile.

    • Jason White

      Did djt show hate for the US when he championed the birther lie? or when he called McCain a loser for being a POW? or when he disrespected a Gold Star family? Just in case you lack the spine to answer, I will do it for you. YES, YES and HELL YES!

      • Carolinatarheel

        Lies!

        Crooked Hillary started the birther movement in 2008, when she lost to Obama!

        And now, former hero McCain is betraying us on the Obamacare repeal.

        The media will publish 2,000 articles based on anonymous sources that President Trump never said!

        America First!

        • Jason White

          Спасибо друг!

    • ojay

      They aren’t your team – they are owned.

  • PigFox

    Hail to the mighty hero!

  • Dan Schwartz

    Here’s another version of Sgt. Carneys story from July 2013 by Ronald Coddington: ‘The Old Flag Never Touched the Ground’
    https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/19/the-old-flag-never-touched-the-ground/?TheDeplorables

  • Eric377

    The early church went through a spasm of conflict over whether or not the imperfections of any specific priest invalidated the sacraments he administered. They eventually concluded that no, such was not the case. It has no bearing that Adrian Peterson is highly imperfect for his protest to valid. I can agree that observers might not be as influenced by his protest as by others of higher reputation, but that is a not the same thing. Don’t tell me you find fault with the protesters, but rather that the protest is improper.

    • Loek van Iwaarden

      ‘… The idea that black wealth and success should be a salve, a concession
      prize for the realities of racism is absurd, but all too common…’
      From:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-double-standards-of-black-people-in-protest_us_59c90d74e4b01cc57ff3cc50

      • ProfElwood

        It’s not. It’s a very real sign that the “realities of racism” is that there isn’t much of it, or these people wouldn’t be allowed into such high-paying careers.

        • Loek van Iwaarden

          Unfortunately, its a bit more complicated than that.
          Structural racism in the US has a long long history.

          Please, take the trouble to inform yourself more thorougly. It may take some effort.

          Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote a great essay on the issue for the Atlantic magazine, here:
          https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

          Racism is still deeply ingrained in US society, I’m sorry to say. Coates is absolutely right.

          • ProfElwood

            The title killed it. The case against reparations will always be stronger, because no amount will ever stop anyone. That, in fact, is what identarians will always point out. Appeasement not only doesn’t work, it only whets the appetite for more. Reparations is an endless punishment for the sins of the past. Between the identitarians and identity politics crowd, the identitarians make more sense, because at least their idea has an end. Racism is embedded mostly into current progressive thought. Without an oppressed group, it dies.

            Back in the real world, at least one study attempted to find that level of discrimination, and found little comes from the usual suspects.

            http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0183356&type=printable

            “Such findings, Boutwell elaborated, are both “interesting and problematic,” saying that while he “can’t speculate,” discrimination on the grounds of political views may be on the rise.”

            https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9699

            Your attempts to stop discrimination may, in fact, be fueling the primary source of it.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Obviously you didn’t bother to read beyond the title.
            That’s not surprising but too bad because Coates doesn’t actually mean compensation money but rather a change of mentality and general attitude, you know.

            Meanwhile this ignorant so-called president has the gall to defend parading nazis in Ch’ville as ‘some fine people among them’ and instead ad nauseam attacks peaceful protesters against, like, a wave of unpunished, cowardly police shooting unarmed black teenagers in the back.
            This Republican’s attitude is symptomatic of the general, structural, racism in the GOP and US society.
            There just have never ever been and there will never be ‘good people’ among nazis. Nazis are just always evil, it is baked into their ‘blood and soil’ genes; Europe knows very well what these guys are like and have outlawed them, so please, read Coates’ essay in its entirety. Enjoy.

            After LBJ’s Civil Rights Act, racists voters, mostly from the South, en masse turned away from the Democratic party to the GOP and never looked back.
            Shameful Republican racist Southern Strategy has been more to their liking eversince.
            Think about that.

            After you’ve finished reading Coates, try googling ‘Lee Atwater Southern Strategy’ as a useful follow up.

          • ProfElwood

            Man, you’ve bought into every talking point lie out there.
            1. Trump didn’t say some of the white supremacists were good people. He said some of the statue defenders were. The groups, on both sides, were mixed.
            The press, as usual, ignored the facts on the ground and took the most hateful and fearful interpretation possible to back their false narrative.
            2. There is no “structural” racism in this country, outside of the policies that Democrats back. Minimum wages hurt
            teenagers and minorities the most, and in many cases, have been passed with the explicit intent to harm new arrivals to the market. You can read the history of the Davis-Bacon act (prevailing wage) which was explicitly meant to keep blacks from getting jobs that unions had before. It was FDR who created the drug war with the uniform narcotics act. Nixon only coined the term. The Clintons passed the biggest police expansion in history.
            3. Black votes changed after welfare expansions, long before the “Southern Strategy” excuse (Nixon lost the south, BTW). Up until the 60s, blacks were gaining on whites in income, were mostly integrating (the majority of blacks lived in majority white neighborhoods), had stronger families (slightly more blacks were born in two-parent families than whites), and higher employment. After welfare expansion, and a change to immigration policy that favored low-skilled immigration over high-skilled, all of that changed. That’s your “structural racism”.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            A better understanding of the Case for Reparations will unravel your points one by one.
            It spans quite a long period of time. Racism is deeply ingrained in US society.

            After the sighning of the Civil Rights Act in 1964, did LBJ win the elections with a landslide, but four Southern states changed allegiance from the Democratic party to the GOP out of racist spite, and have remained a Republican bastion eversince.

            History is a b*tch, if you don’t wish to know about it.

            White supremacists are this so-called president’s base. and these guys have been giddy eversince his despicable ‘birther’ crap, come on.

            It goes on and on and on.
            I suppose you only consume Fox so-called-News? That simply won’t do anymore, my friend. Limbaugh? Hannity? Alex Jones???? Don’t make me laugh.

            ——– I quote:
            “..(…) Donald Trump reiterated his belief that the white supremacist and neo-Nazi terrorists who rampaged in Charlottesville,
            killing Heather Heyer and injuring dozens of other people, are morally
            equivalent to the anti-fascist protesters who opposed them. Trump
            believes this despite the evidence that white supremacists, neo-Nazis,
            Ku Klux Klan members and other elements of the so-called alt-right
            planned their rampage for months, attacked innocent people, decided
            beforehand to use cars in ISIS-style terrorist attacks, (..)

            (…) This is a logical extension of the way the Republican Party of the
            post-Civil Rights era has embraced the coded white racism advocated by
            Pat Buchanan and Lee Atwater as its foundational doctrine. Today’s
            Republican Party is in many ways the direct descendant of the traitorous
            Confederacy and a post-Civil War Southern white elite who maintained
            Jim and Jane Crow white supremacy against black Americans. It is no
            coincidence then that white terrorist organizations such as the Ku Klux
            Klan and neo-Nazi groups overwhelmingly endorse Donald Trump and support
            the Republican Party…”
            ———— end of quote.

            From:… https://www.salon.com/2017/09/17/stop-acting-surprised-america-donald-trump-is-a-white-supremacist/

            etc. etc. etc.

            Over here in good old Europe we have had minimum wages for ages. It works! No problem!
            Universal and affordable single payer healthcare? Yes we can!!!!

            etc. etc. etc.

          • ProfElwood

            More like it exposes your form of thinking. Without racism, your entire movement is dead, and therefore, you must find it, even where it doesn’t exist. However, since racism is more a thought than a deed, it’s entirely up to your imagination to see it. And that’s exactly what you’re doing.

            ” four Southern states changed allegiance from the Democratic party to the GOP out of racist spite”
            Really? Did someone survey these people, or is that your assumption? We both the know the answer to that one. LBJ expanded the government radically, and many people know where that leads. You’re not only using nothing but an assumption, but ignoring far better reasons that people would have switched parties at the time.

            “White supremacists are this so-called president’s base.”
            Based on what, a few hundred people in Charolette? Again, there’s no data that would back that up, so you’re operating entirely from a long chain of hateful assumptions. If they were his base, he wouldn’t have made it into the primaries, for lack of workers in the states to get the petitions signed. There are more admitted Marxist teachers than known white supremacists. It must take a lot of brainwashing to get you to believe that so many of them exist today. Either that or you’re outright lying. Maybe you’re just stretching the definition until it means nothing. In any case, you’re full of it, as are the rest who spout this hate tripe. Have fun living in fear.

            “I suppose you only consume Fox so-called-News?”
            More baseless auto-assumptions. More hate. More being wrong. Your statements are more indicative of a closed, enbubbled mind than mine. There’s no way to believe your statements and be able to do your own research.

            “Donald Trump reiterated his belief that the white supremacist and neo-Nazi terrorists who rampaged in Charlottesville”
            Well, if a Salon writer says it, it MUST be true! What tripe. She doesn’t quote Trump’s words, and certainly not anyone who was actually there. Quoting someone else’s baseless opinion just makes you look like an automaton. Think for yourself. Quote the source.

            Sure minimum wages work — to exclude teens from employment. Sweden can’t place even 1% of their migrants, and neither can Germany. You have an odd definition of success. Seattle just raised their minimum wage, and found that the people on that wage ended up earning less, as their hours were cut back more than the wage increased.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            “.. Without racism, your entire movement is dead, and therefore, you must find it, even where it doesn’t exist…”
            (Ta-Nehisi Coates’ fame began with a provocative essay on federal housing discrimination, “The Case for Reparations.” “Federal housing discrimination”, so DEEDS, not thoughts).

            “…LBJ expanded the government radically..’
            (Not to the point. LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act. Racist Democrats didn’t like that and so changed allegiance to the GOP. This is historic. Only a few deranged alt-right extremists still prefer to deny this fact.

            Fox, Breitbart, PJMedia, and Infowars, Lifezette, Daily Stormer, etc. are all dishonorable and cranky alt-right conspiracy websites, you know, that whip up fear and intolerance for ‘the other’ among vulnerable people. Quick to defend nazis, but deliberately unwilling to defend (peaceful, symbolic protests against) unarmed black teenagers shot in the back by police. These are always the first to peddle stuff like the despicable #GropinDonnie’s ‘birther’ crap with enthusiasm.

            ‘Living wages’ is a better term, you know, so one doesn’t need 3 jobs a day to pay the bills. This so-called president’s tax plans of course benefits the wealthy GOP corporate donor classes, mark my words.

            I myself side with Noam Chomsky (MIT) who has a good point calling the GOP as the organisation most dangerous to human activity on this planet.

            Since Hurricane Mueller is gaining strength by the day, the insane #GropinDonnie nightmare could be over just in time, and the world heave a great sigh of relief.
            So long, and good luck informing yourself.

          • ProfElwood

            “Federal housing discrimination”
            So, as proof that the system racism that you speak of isn’t just Democrat government programs, you point to — a Democrat government program.

            “This is historic. You’re a Nazi to deny it (paraphrasing a little)”. Or you can think for yourself. One of the two.

            alt-right websites….I’m not sure what this has to do with anything, but you’re obviously full of a lot of hate. The hate you see in others is assumed. The hate you display here is obvious. Every hate group thinks that they’re justified, especially when they aren’t.

            “Living wage” depends a lot on where you live. In New York, $15/hr is tough with $2,000/month rent. In the midwest, where renting a small house is closer to the $600 to $800 range, it’s more than comfortable. That’s why the coastal elites shouldn’t be setting wages outside their bubbles. Also, people, especially teens, have to have starter jobs to break into the markets. The less connected you are, the more important it is to have those opportunities. You can ignore the effects minimum wages have on ex-criminals, minorities, and teens, but that doesn’t make them go away.

            You know and idea by its fruits. Progressives have destroyed every field they invaded, including colleges, businesses, comics, families, communities, entertainment, and political discourse. Its destructive power is obvious to those who look.

            You can cling to the assumed findings of a rogue prosecutor, I’m still hoping people will give up on hate and try reason and evidence instead.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            You can have your own opinions, but you can’t have your own facts. Sorry, but when you deny history, it will bite you in the #ss, you know.

            ‘think for yourself’, So where do you get your information from? You make it up out of whole cloth, I presume? Come on.

            Progressive politices has always involved a more just distribution of wealt, knowledge and power.

            That’s all, I’m done with you in this thread my friend.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            ‘… Trump is unafraid to be brash and act tough when the suspect or victims of a tragedy are not white.
            But when the suspect is white, as was the case in the Las Vegas shooting, Trump can only muster a boilerplate response — clearly disappointed (…)…’
            From:
            https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/trumps-reaction-to-las-vegas-was-a-lot-different-than-other-attacks/

            ‘Living wages’ is a better term actually, you know, when people don’t need 3 jobs a day to pay the bills.

            And for good measure:
            ”… Whenever a white man commits an act of mass gun violence in America — politically motivated or otherwise — there is a cultural script that is closely followed by the mainstream news media, politicians and too many members of the public.
            This narrative is obvious and predictable. Alas,it provides some small measure of comfort to many, even if that familiarity is rooted in gross hypocrisy and flagrant contradictions…’
            From:
            https://www.salon.com/2017/10/02/americas-white-man-problem-after-las-vegas-a-familiar-script-unfolds/

            This sure is a terrible, racist and STRUCTURAL problem in a country with this sick gun-fetish.

          • ProfElwood

            Oh, also, you might want to look at which party got the Civil Rights act passed, and which one was fighting its passage. You’ve been lied to a lot.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            No, no, no, only AFTER the Democratic filibuster was broken and LBJ signed it into law did Southern Dems change allegiance.

            LBJ to Ted Sorensen:
            “I know the risks are great and we might lose the South, but those sorts of states may be lost anyway.”

            LBJ won the elections with a landslide In 1964, but four Southern states went Republican, turning the South into the GOP bastion which it has remained eversince.

            (as per Wikipedia)

  • Cjones1

    NFL Football vs. honoring the National Anthem. The NFL lost as a result of bad performance.
    Roger Goodell and the league refused to honor fallen police officers in Dallas.
    The bended knee protests are viewed as players, coaches, and owners supporting cop killing radicals.
    Trump expressed his opinion, but he is being penalized for calling the anti-police protesters SOBs.
    Cops have a tougher job than NFL players. Many opponents have weapons and quick decisions are often required in life or death situations. Cops don’t reap multi-million dollar salaries when they protect football players, broadcasters, and actors who are subsidized by the $200 billion tax write off for advertising expenses.
    Cops risk life, limbs, and bend their knees to help victims in some of the most gruesome circumstances.
    The NFL and the anti-cop protesters are being routed in this lack of honor and respect for people who risk their lives to protect us all.

    • Loek van Iwaarden

      ‘…You could look back to, of course, Muhammad Ali is the most obvious
      figure. But you could look at a figure like Curt Flood in baseball. You
      could look at a figure like Joe Lewis, you could look at Jackie
      Robinson, you could look at an earlier figure like Jack Johnson. You
      could look at a number of instances in American sports where the crisis
      with politics and sports in this country frequently has been over the
      business of race..

      (…) ‘… this other major reality (…): The
      United States was a racist state. (…) for instance, in the late 19th
      century, the creation of two different types of professional baseball
      leagues that were based on race, and that existed in this country until
      the end of World War II. (…) the
      division of baseball in this country by race is explicitly,
      self-evidently political. (…) I don’t know what else you could call it.

      ‘From: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/09/the_nfl_protest_and_the_long_history_of_politics_in_sports.html

      • ProfElwood

        Muhammad Ali was an identitarian who spoke at a KKK rally. There’s not much difference between identity and identitarian politics.

        • Loek van Iwaarden

          Whatever, but Ali had a lot of guts going into the lion’s den, and somehow I don’t think he went there to sympathize with KKK ideology and cowardly lynching tactics.
          Mohammad Ali was a very courageous gentleman.

          And I’m quite shure he never voted for a KKK man like, to use a present day example, GOP partywhip(!) Steve Scalise, who had the gall to advertise himself as ‘David Duke without the baggage’, meaning the criminal record.

          • ProfElwood

            He didn’t go in there to criticize them, but because he agreed with them. No, of course he didn’t agree with lynchings, that would be just silly. Those tactics were from the old KKK when it was the military arm of Democrats. David Duke can’t garner enough votes for dog catcher and no such group has any power. The groups with power that are creating division are in the identity politics crowd.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Except that lynching and lawlessnes have always been an integral part of the KKK tactics to terrorize blacks.

            After LBJ’s Civil Rights Act the racist, mostly Southern, vote en masse turned to the Republican party and never looked back.
            They found the GOP’s racist Southern Strategy much more to their taste, you know.

            That David Duke is an ineffectual charlatan is beside the point; what matters is that GOP partywhip Steve Scalise very recently thought it useful for his popularity to identify himself with Duke.
            Think about that.

      • JJinCO

        “You could look back to …” or you could live in the present and look to the future. The only black American draftees forced to fight in Vietnam are on the Ken Burns series on TV … which I watched rather than MNF.

        • Loek van Iwaarden

          I’m a fan of Ken Burns.
          The Jazz series; the Civil War, especially the reading from primary sources.
          And indeed Vietnam I think reveals a lot about US politics. Doesn’t make one optimistic, though, with Republicans at the helm.

          • JJinCO

            “Hey, hey, LBJ. How many kids did you kill today?”… and all for Bell Helicopter and Brown and Root.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Allow me to clarify: I’m (present tense) not optimistic (for the future) with Republicans like #GropinDonnie at the helm. His bombastic tweeting has put him right on a par with the the guy from North Korea.
            Think about that.
            Obama never did nor would Hillary ever warmonger as i-l-l-e-g-i t-i-m-a-t-e so-called president #GropinDonnie is doing. The guy is already a clear and present danger to humanity.

            The weapons budget is fine with dozens of billions but Hurricane states get pittance.

          • JJinCO

            “We came, we saw, he died.” That lesson wasn’t lost on Rocket Man.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Except, that he’s still around… No simple solutions, I’m afraid.

            South Korea and Guam are still at risk with this bombastic rhetoric of BOTH Kim & #GropinDonnie.
            After having taken the high ground, the US has now stooped to the North Korean level of warmongering language..

          • JJinCO

            Yes, the “high ground” is killing Gaddafi after he gave up his nukes. So now … Rocket Man is a bigger threat.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Gaddafi was lynched by a furious Lybian mob; directly blaming the Obama admin. for that just doesn’t wash.

            And, by the way:
            http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/27/trump-north-korea-rhetoric-poll-243238

          • JJinCO

            Hillary took credit for the kill. “We came, we saw, he died.” And she should. American air power won the day.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Unfortunately, taking on NKorea militarily involves taking infinitely greater, in fact unacceptable risks, it having nukes and all.
            Imagine the utter catastrophy if this insane mutual brinkmanship should explode.

            Don’t expect Kim to ever take the moral high ground.
            Considering his proverbial incontinence of the mouth, I’m not very hopeful about this so-called US president being able to do that either.

            #GropinDonnie can deny having declared war with the latest tweet until he’s blue in the face, it’s just that Kim doesn’t see it that way.

          • JJinCO

            Rocket Man has been conditioned to be rewarded for saber rattling … sometimes by us, sometimes by the Chinese. No more. Rocket Man knows we haven’t declared war, but he can’t figure out why he hasn’t gotten his treat either.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            It doesn’t matter what NKorea knows or not, it’s what comes blaring out.
            When confronted with unhinged NKorean rhetoric, US Presidents used to take the high ground. With this warmongering i-l-l-e-g-i-t-i-m-a-t-e so-called president #GropinDonnie, no more.

            The world is hoping that Hurricane Mueller will hit the US soon.

          • JJinCO

            And the high ground US Presidents hasn’t accomplished a thing. Hurricane Mueller is experiencing wind shear and will be downgraded to a Democrat depression.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Well, not so fast.
            Fresh discoveries are being made every day.

            An update from Oct. 1:
            ‘… New developments in the Russia investigation involving social media, Jared Kushner, Roger Stone, and Michael Flynn capped off a dizzying month of revelations about special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe into Russia’s election interference – and how the White House is reacting…’
            (from: https://www.businessinsider.nl/latest-trump-russia-developments-roundup-facebook-mueller-2017-9/?international=true&r=US )

            And:
            ‘… House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), and ranking member Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) sent a letter to White House counsel last week requesting more information about the use of private email addresses by White House staff…’
            (from: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/02/jared-kushner-email-account-white-house-243389 )

            It turns out Hurricane Mueller is still gathering momentum and will ultimately overwhelm this corrupted and illegitimate regime.

          • JJinCO

            “It turns out Hurricane Mueller is” wasting taxpayer money trying to justify the expenditure.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Hopefully, the #GropinDonnie nightmare will be over soon.

            ‘… Mueller has let it be known that he is pursuing charges of obstruction
            of justice, money laundering, making false statements, and possibly even
            treason…’
            from:
            https://www.alternet.org/4-keys-muellers-investigation-trump

            And:
            ‘… Even Trump apologist Alan Dershowitz has predicted that Flynn will “probably be indicted” …’
            from:
            https://www.salon.com/2017/10/04/4-keys-to-muellers-investigation-of-trump_partner/

            And:
            ‘… a picture is beginning to take shape of how the Russians may have been
            able to collude with the Trump campaign to swing the election…’

            from:
            http://www.politicususa.com/2017/10/03/trump-closer-impeachment-proof-russia-helped-win-wisconsin-michigan.html

            etc. etc. etc.

          • JJinCO

            And, by the way:

            https://powerhournation.com/only-25-of-americans-know-three-branches-of-government/

            Insanity is doing the same thing over and over yet expecting a different result.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            ‘Insanity’ I agree with you that this so-called president is a sandwich short of a lunch.
            The subject of your ‘link’ is some more ignorance of US citizens about the 3 branches of government.

            Just wild guess, your comments amount to stressing the importance of education and of electing a competent President?

          • JJinCO

            No, it is stressing the folly of using a poll to support your argument.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            The numbers are overwhelming.
            It’s no use for you to say that all these people lied when polled, come on.

          • JJinCO

            You prove my point with that comment. Let me spell it out more clearly: 3 out of 4 Americans can’t name the 3 branches of government so why would I care about their opinions of other matters? They are likely equally uninformed … and easily swayed by push poll questions. What the majority think is interesting but not necessarily right.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Well, you are missing the point by confusing the diagnosed,low average level of knowledge about the structure of government with subjective perception and opinions about the contents of certain utterances emanating from this so-called president.

            These are two entirely different concepts, you know.

          • JJinCO

            “These are two entirely different concepts …?”

            Knowledge affects perception and opinion so they are closely interrelated. And when so many are so poorly informed about something so basic it is easy to dismiss their opinions.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            It doesn’t matter whether opinions can be easily dismissed or not.. Opinions determine votes!!
            Think about that.

          • JJinCO

            Stupid people vote, too! Think about that.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            You’ve got it!

            Sadly, ill informed people can indeed be mislead into voting against their interests.

            Republicans are experts in the dark arts of propaganda to benefit their rich donors at the cost of everyone else, considering their endless lies about Obamacare, climate change and tax reforms.

            The bought-and-payed-for so-called president even admitted how much he loves his poorly educated constituents.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Unfortunately, poorly educated people do vote, you know.

      • Cjones1

        The legacy of the Democratic party is slavery, segregation, racism, and the KKK. Trump and Republicans are the scapegoats for the Democratic party’s sins.
        Change the name of the Democratic party when the Confederate statues are removed and remove Woodrow Wilson’s crypt from the Washington National Cathedral.
        Charlottesville was a battle between old and new Democratic party ideologies. The Democratic party supports the fascist Antifa, protects their racist name, and bemoans criticism of cop killing sympathies displayed by the NFL kneelers.

        • Loek van Iwaarden

          Except that 50+ years ago the GOP reversed the roles by itself employing the filthy racist ‘Southern Strategy’, (try googling Lee Atwater) itself becoming the party of racism and the KKK it is now.
          Or are you saying these white men with their nazi flags in perposterous Rambo outfits waving big guns really all voted Obama and Hillary?
          Come on!

          This i-l-l-e-g-t-i-m-a-t-e so-called president #GropinDonnie himself has been a fan of David Duke for ever, and Republican partywhip(!!) Steve Scalise even had the gall to advertise himself as ‘David Duke without the baggage’, meaning the criminal record of course. He was duly elected.

          The NFL protests have been against police brutality.
          Anti fascists agitate against the racist filth of the unhinged rightwing, period. Learning some European history might teach you to actually distinguish fascism in society.
          So please, get educated..

          The world is watching.
          You can’t fool all the people all the time.

          • Name six Democrat Congressman who switched parties after the Southern Strategy to prove your fantasy story above.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Better still, I googled Lee Atwater Southern Strategy for you.
            First hit, bingo!
            ——————- I quote:

            “…The late, legendarily brutal campaign consultant Lee Atwater explains how Republicans can win the vote of racists without sounding racist themselves:

            ‘You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract.
            Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.…
            “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger….”

            Now, the same indefatigable researcher who brought us Mitt Romney’s “47 percent” remarks,…’

            ———————–end of quote.

            Sounds familiar?

            ———————– a bit further:
            ‘… political scientist, Thomas Schaller, wrote in his 2006 book Whistling Past Dixie (which naturally quotes the infamous Atwater lines), “Despite the best efforts of Republican spinmeisters…the partisan impact of racial attitudes in the South is stronger today than in the past.”…’
            ———————–
            From:
            https://www.thenation.com/article/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/

            The world is watching.
            You can’t fool all the people all the time.

          • SO, no evidence whatsoever that your Magical Mystery Party Swap ever happened, since you can’t name anyone who actually changed parties, much less the paltry six you were challenged with.

            Do go on believing strange myths with no evidence though. Low information voters have rights too, after all.

          • Loek van Iwaarden

            Apparantly you are still somehow clinging to the conviction that the white guys in Ch’ville shouting ‘No Jews will replace us’ voted Hillary? Get outta here!

          • Cjones1

            The racist Democratic Gov. George Wallace was still running in 1968 and 1972. Richard Nixon opened his campaign in Chicago in 1968 after the violent Democratic Convention. In the latest Burns Vietnam documentary, the riots made LBJ so mad that he almost flew to Chicago to run again, but the Secret Service feared for his well being. He would have been impeached if he had run…especially after the Ellsberg papers were published.
            You’re right, the whole World and the whole country was watching!
            The left took advantage of the anti-war sentiments, as did Pelosi, Reid, and Obama in 2006 & 2008, and we’re rioting. The civil rights movement coincidently exploded after the King assassination by a Democrat James Earl Ray.
            Nixon realized there was a visceral reaction among working class Americans to the leftist inspired anti-war protests and took advantage of it. Only after Wallace lost the primary did he feel he could gain many Democratic Southerners much like Trump felt he could attract Bernie anti-corporate, anti-swamp voters.
            Nixon initiated Affirmative Action programs and his Justice Department enforced Civil Rights laws. That alienated Northern, union based Democrats.
            Wallace knew the Southern Democratic base was still intact because he based his 1972 presidential run on it.
            It wasn’t until much later and over decades that the Southern Democrats left the party as the leftist, antiwar wing of the Democratic party gained the majority. A few, pro defense politicians like Sen. Sam Nunn. Gore, and others stayed in the party until the 80s and 90s, but there has been a flight from the Democratic party continuing since then that has nothing to do with race.
            G.H.W. Bush and Atwater mocked Dukakis on his defense promises and stressed law and order to take advantage of high crime rates in minority neighborhoods (Willie Horton ads, etc.).
            If there was peace and low crime those efforts would not have worked. Good ole boy Billy Jeff Clinton ran as a conservative Democrat promising welfare reform among other things to keep the remaining racist, Southern Democrats voting for him.
            The Southern Strategy construct to label the Republican party racist has too many holes in it because the Democratic party kept those racists over decades and many are still registered Democrats to this day unless the leftists drove them out.
            By the way, Black Americans have continued an economic and beneficial demographic downfall the more they hitched there wagons to the Democratic party.

  • Tom

    Players commit the obvious divisive act of attacking America by kneeling, then cry about being called out for it saying it’s divisive. Laughable.

    • gda

      Yes, not too smart, are they. But we knew that, and they walked right into POTUS’s trap.

  • robbie gomes

    Screw the NFL and the NBA! Professional Soccer is faster, more exciting, and requires more talent. Short or tall makes no difference in this sport. Speed and agility, of course, are great assets but talent and knowledge are rewarded. Let the disrespectful millionaires who went to college for free, when we all paid our own way, play to empty stadiums!

    • TooTall7

      And get paid accordingly!

  • Bear in mind that hundreds of Union soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Civil War and most of them were taken back when the Army finally got around to establishing a standard for the award.

  • JDL

    When Obama concluded that America needed fundamental change, he cemented the idea that Democrats don’t really like the country as it stands. Constant and unrelenting disgruntlement is exhausting, and further, openly and brazenly insulting all those who like the country breeds resentment, and rarely if ever changes hearts and minds. Humility, strength, courage, kindness, generosity, and prudence are much more likely to have an impact than hostility, hypocrisy, arrogance, disrespect, and accusations. Former NFL fans are within their rights to find another pastime, and the time is fast approaching for the American left to find another country.

  • Random Ami

    “Peaceful protest is as American as it gets”.

    Well depending on which side does the protest…according to the MSM:

    1. A little fringe group of white supremacists (whom I personally abhor) were peacefully protesting the dismantle of statues, until a violent group called Antifa came to provoke them, escalated the violence and the whole thing ended up in tragedy. Seems to me according to MSM that the support for peaceful protest goes only one way.

    2. A large group of American civilians, the Tea Parties, protested government in a super peacefully and well organized events, yet were called racists, Astro turfers, demonized. But when a group of peace distrupters, street urinating crowd called OWS went “protesting” because they demanded their freebies, the MSM went all Gaga for them.

    3. A Technitian quietly and civilized protested some diversification policies of his company and gets fired on the basis that it’s the company rights and rules. A group of players use their work area to protest politics and get praised.

    4. Sport athletes in Dallas ware a band in support of the police after the shooting and get silenced, BLM go on looting and chanting “kill cops, fry them like bacon” and is called “peaceful” and supported.

    Yeah right. Tell it like it is. Protests of the left are condoned and praised, whether they are peaceful or not. Protests of the right are condemned no matter what.

  • “Not that the NFL’s players are really in the best position to pass social-justice judgment… ”

    You really think the Dotard p-grabber has any moral authority?

  • Randall Smith

    Doesn’t the president have more pressing issues such as the North Korean’s nuclear weapons? Or Puerto Rico?

    • gda

      Already dealt with. Haven’t you been paying attention? Of course you haven’t.

      Nothing more important than ripping the false identity politics of the left to shreds. Remember, he came to bury it, not praise it (PC leftist trope that is).

  • JCH

    Speaking of unpatriotic bags of crap, the President is the most unpatriotic person in America today:

    McCain: Trump never apologized for saying I wasn’t a war hero.

    When you’ve cleared this up, you can get back to criticizing NFL players…

    • Hyperion

      McCain isn’t a war hero, or a hero of anything. He’s an enemy of the American public which he has constantly betrayed while spending far too long in Congress. If McCain is the only example of hero you have, you have nothing.

      • JCH

        Let me restate…

        Speaking of unpatriotic bags of crap LIKE HYPERION, the President is the most unpatriotic person in America today:

        McCain: Trump never apologized for saying I wasn’t a war hero.

        When you’ve cleared this up, you can get back to criticizing NFL players…

        • gda

          Awww, poor little McCain, a “hero” for crashing planes and selling out his country, first in Vietnam, now on Obamacare, wants an apology.

          Never thought I’d see the day when someone else would walk into the temple and upend the “Pharisees and moneylenders”. Thank you Mr. President.

          • JCH

            Here’s a great example of the human filth the President has brought out of the closet.

            gda like so many of President Racist-Bigots followers talk a good game on patriotism. But when it comes to showing it, they’re just classless fools….

    • Jon

      If McCain is so heroic, why did he make 39 propaganda broadcasts for the NVA? Why are the military records for his time spent as a POW permanently sealed?

      Those are facts. Everything else, pro or con, is supposition or anecdotes. Because the truth, is locked away. McCain, saw to that.

      • JCH

        Permanently sealed???? Well then have President Racist-Bigot unseal them.

        Who knows, maybe President Obama’s “real” birth certificate is in there too. Or maybe it’s just supposition or anecdotes….

    • Carolinatarheel

      If McCain is so heroic, why does he betray American citizens and vote against repealing Obamacare?

      President Trump stands behind what’s good for America!

      America First,

  • Max Flasher

    Trump did not pick a fight with the NFL. The left has been trying to destroy Trump ever since he was elected. I’ve lived in Chicago all my life and have never met a “white supremacist” yet according to the left, they’re everywhere, even in the White House.

    We seem to have lost the capacity to transition to a new government after an election which is a classic sign of a failed state. The “Resistance!” is a good example of how bizarre things have become. We seem to already be in a low intensity civil war which is rapidly heading for far worse. Time will tell what fate has in store for us.

    • TribeFan42

      Well said.

  • Jon

    I’m a veteran who fought and bled for that flag. So are millions more Americans. 10s/100s millions more Americans are family members of veterans who fought and/or died for that flag. These individuals have chosen to disrespect that flag, and our veterans, in order to score political points for whatever cause du jour they’re espousing.

    I’ve fought for the right for these individuals to make political protests, that is a part of what that flag represents. I fully support and applaud these individuals for exercising their right to stage a peaceful, non-violent protest. However…they’ve chosen to exercise that right, by expressing open contempt for me, my fellow veterans, and our flag. They’ve chosen to exercise that right, by interjecting their politics onto the playing field.

    That is their right. I, have the right to refuse to support them, or their sport, any further with my eyeballs or my wallet. I, have the right to refuse to further associate myself with them, or football. Isn’t America wonderful? We all have the right to act in accordance with our principles.

    I paid blood for my principles. Hopefully, their principled stand will cost them alot of money. If so, it’s still a cheap civics lesson for them.

  • barry1817

    wonderful history lesson

    I am proposing that on November 23, Thanksgiving day, all people ignore and tune out the first NFL/black thugs matter game of the day. Send a clear message and let it contrast with the rest of the games that day that they need the fans more than the fans need them.

    I proposed this day, because it is some 8 weeks away and allows for all to contact friends, neighbors and others to make the small sacrifice of only the first game on Thanksgiving day.

    I hope that all reading this will pass it along, share it, make this work

    1 day, 1 game 1 message

    Eyeballs away my friends
    eyeballs away

    Farewell to football game
    we stop on Thanks giving day-ay

    (do need help with the lyrics)

    Thank you for reading, thank you in advance for promoting this,

    And for those that want to attack me, for suggesting peaceful protest, there will be no responses

  • Walther11

    Remove the NFL’s anti trust exemption. To Hell with them.

  • Joel Mathis

    “Not that the NFL’s players are really in the best position to pass social-justice judgment on President Trump’s exhortation to “one of these NFL owners” to fire any “son of a bitch” who “disrespects our flag.” Since 2000, there have been 855 player arrests, including 215 charges for driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; 99 drug busts; 96 domestic violence incidents; 71 felony assaults; and two murders.”

    Ah. So they’re ALL thugs, eh?

  • Max Flasher

    There’s a beautiful and strange YouTube video called “Dmitri Shostakovich-The Second Waltz”. Beautiful music and dancing plus it’s very strangely quirky which makes it even more enjoyable.
    https://youtu.be/F_rY7fpzNC0

    It’s odd that white leftists have such a deep racial hatred of white people since white people have in fact created a lot of very beautiful culture but the left thinks quite differently so there’s really no way to understand their reasoning.

  • Tarquin42

    Americans are truely the most stupid people that ever walked this planet. You deserve the leader you have and I know you will vote more Bushes and Trumpians and other corporate republicans in to office.
    Also Obama also was a corporate Democrat.

  • This is a wonderful article! But the second sentence befuddles me: “no law requires people to stand when the anthem is played, or that people to sing along—although federal law does mandate that we “should face the flag and stand at attention.

    Which is it? I read 36 U.S. Code § 301 and it sure sounds like there is a law that “require people to stand.”

    • Jason White

      Who will police this “law” to stand? Will you make a citizen’s arrest of a 350lb linebacker that takes a knee? GTFOH!!!

      • I’m not arguing for enforcement. I’m confused by the writing. The author says there is no law requiring standing then cites a law that requires standing. Not sure why my confusion is so provocative.

        • Jason White

          You are confused because the author is an idiot. There is no statutory enforceable “law” for not standing during the national anthem. My response was meant to show the idiocy of an attempt to enforce it if it did exist. Additionally, I would hope that my local police jurisdiction would not waste my tax dollars patrolling every little league sporting event to make sure that every one was standing.

      • JDL

        75,000 fans could make the point!

        • Jason White

          I have an idea. Hold your breath waiting for NFL fans to stop watching to the point that owners make players stand.

          • JDL

            Another idea: have the entirety of the NFL become a political organization. Forget the football–everyone is getting CTE anyway.

    • Jon

      Language in the statute is “should”, not “will”. It’s a guideline for rendering proper courtesy and respect to the flag. By kneeling, they’re deliberately and pointedly refusing to show courtesy and respect to the flag and the ideals it represents.

      They’re well within their rights. Likewise, all of their paying customers have the right to refuse to support them financially.

      • Ah…thanks….makes sense. I don’t typically read law, so my frame of reference to “should” is formerly my parents and now my wife. Carries the weight of ‘will’. 🙂

        • Jon

          I feel your pain.

  • Jason White

    To suggest that Kaepernick began this protest as a means to disrespect troops and/or the US, shows willful ignorance and an inability to empathize with your fellow Americans. He began this quiet non-violent protest to bring attention to the inequitable treatment of minorities by law enforcement. This particular issue is nothing new and has a long history in the US. Those of us that refuse the idea that racial discrimination and bias are at the root of systemic challenges faced by minorities, would like to make this protest about disrespect for the troops or arrogant and ungrateful multi-millionaires that are “politicizing” sports. Protest is not meant to be comfortable or convenient; however, the constitution that our troops defend grants all of us the right to protest whatever we want. If nazi’s have the right to march through the streets and chant anti-Semitic slogans (culminating in a pedestrian being run over), then these players have the right to kneel during the national anthem. If you don’t like it then don’t watch. If the rest of us have to endure having a white supremacist sympathizer as a president then you have to endure people kneeling during the anthem. Free speech is protected no matter whether you agree or not.

    • Carolinatarheel

      Every time a leftist kneels, a demon gets it’s horns!

    • JDL

      Perhaps a fair remedy would be for those insulted to rise up and shout down the disrespectful cowards of the NFL–rush the field, disrupt the game, throw garbage onto the field, and prevent the “show.” This would more directly address the issues.

      • Jason White

        Why don’t you try it and let me know how that turns out. I’m pretty sure the “disrespectful cowards” (that are also well-conditioned athletes) will waste no time showing you the consequences of your decision.

        • JDL

          A good riot might be just the thing to settle the issue and really show where people stand. And like in Baltimore and Ferguson, a little burning and looting could make for great TV in place of the game. Mix in a few skin heads for good measure.

          • Jason White

            Lead the charge!!!

          • JDL

            I throw my beer at my TV this weekend! Oh, wait…

      • Theonewhoknocks

        Respond to peaceful protest with violence? Not a good call

        • JDL

          Sort of like the whole free speech deal on college campuses or BLM rolls, wouldn’t you say? Or the Baltimore and Ferguson situations went after due process? OK for the left, but not the right?

          • Theonewhoknocks

            Violence is never the answer, regardless of what examples you provide. When you advocate for violence you are only making the situation worse.

    • Dave Hunter

      Perhaps if blacks wouldn’t shoot policemen and would obey the orders of the police when at a traffic stop or while being arrested they wouldn’t get shot?

      • Theonewhoknocks

        Perhaps if you didn’t oversimplify the issue as “blacks not obeying orders” you would understand the issue better. African Americans are disproportionately killed by police. Police do have a very hard job, and most are good at it. But it is the ones that are killing innocent people that are the problem. That is why they are protesting.

  • Carolinatarheel

    Policemen have rougher jobs than athletes!

    Players protest for BLM; however, it’s okay for innocent officers (black and white) to be shot by black men???

    There’s something wrong with this picture!

    • JDL

      The patent absurdity of a $20M NFL employee somehow heightening awareness of victim-hood doesn’t seem right.

  • Carolinatarheel

    I’ve worked, obeyed the laws and paid taxes all my life! I pay hard-earned money to see a game—-not to watch players protest!

    Perhaps all fans should throw their beer, hotdogs and popcorn onto the field if players refuse to play football!

    America First!

    • Theonewhoknocks

      Anytime someone starts off with “I pay my taxes” they are about to say something stupid. Way to not let us down! Whatever you did with your life has nothing to do with the constitutional rights of others.

  • Max Flasher

    The protests are about “police brutality” but the police have already been so demonized and demoralized that they’ve backed way off on policing which is why crime, shootings and social breakdown are surging in the wonderfully progressive city of Chicago. So what is all the protesting about? They’ve already won. The police have backed way off. What more do they want?

    I live in Chicago so I often read the police blog “Second City Cop”. They are totally alienated from this society. It used to be that the criminals would try to avoid the police. Now the police try to avoid the criminals because it’s just not worth the risk since so many on the left are just out to hang them and because there’s so little support for the police in the black community.

    A truly disastrous situation.

  • BGZ123

    1) The protesting players were not “generating the comprehensive fury of the American public,” since much of the public supports their action.
    2) Were you at the stadiums, Prof. Guelzo, to hear the “full-throated choruses of roaring, angry boos, and shouts of ‘Stand up!’”? I wasn’t, but a quick google search of “fans react to kneeling” brings multiple stories of fans reacting both negatively and positively. I admit, of course, “full-throated” is not a technical term. . .
    3) I am sure you realize that the history of crimes committed by NFL players is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. Nice bit of rhetoric, though.
    4) You state “I do not understand the deference I am supposed to show to the opinions of people who batter other people senseless for a living.” Who is asking you to defer to anyone? In fact, why didn’t you just ignore the whole thing?
    5) The story of William Harvey Carney is indeed wonderful. Also, here, entirely irrelevant. (As a side comment, I hope you will agree that it is insane to risk one’s life to save a flag. I would argue that it is also immoral to praise someone for having done so, as it might lead others to follow suit and be killed for a piece of fabric. Further, the energy expended in rescuing the flag might better be used to aid the dying human beings.)
    6) Personally, I couldn’t care less how NFL players respond to the national anthem. I do care what President Trump does, however, and it would have been nice if he had used the same enthusiasm to galvanize support for, e.g, Puerto Rico.
    Cheers. – Brian Zack, Princeton, NJ

  • JohnInFlorida

    When the NFL dries up and dies, I wanna be there to watch those overpaid prima-donnas try and find gainful employment then laugh at them when they fail and finally realize their true value.
    Welcome to the real world, useless!

  • ojay

    Do we really need this crap ? Like the Hollywood snowflakes aren’t enough ?? Teaching children respect has long been lost.

  • MyNameGoesHere00

    Wow…I am absolutely humbled by this great noble American Hero, Mr. William Harvey Carney.

  • BGZ123

    Another voice heard from –
    Michael Hayden, four-star general, former director of the CIA and of the National Security Agency:
    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/352419-michael-hayden-in-trump-versus-nfl-standing-up-for-free-speech

  • rac647

    Sergeant Carney is just one more veteran that the NFL players spat on this past weekend. The veterans of this country, past, present and future are the true heroes of America. We all owe a debt of gratitude to those currently serving to keep us safe and also to those who have served in the past, way back as far as the Revolutionary War and perhaps even earlier.

  • BillB

    Since there are 238 comments and I don’t have time to view them all, I wanted to add a correction about 36 USC, Chapter 3, Section 301. Since 2008 it states “members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform”.